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Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law

 
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JoeSpareBedroom

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Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 31) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Re: Presidents do not have the right to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>toyota (more info?)

wrote in message

>
>
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Jeff" wrote in message
>>
>
>> > <http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5goz_Z25ZPQRrtMIiy8YP0RX5FGsg>
>> >
>> > The 9th Circuit Court of appeals ruled that the Navy can't break the
>> > law
>> > even if the President says they can.
>
>> Keep in mind, the 9th is based in California, and is the most liberal
>> appeals court in country.
>
> OH MY GOD!


What Shmuckland meant to say was "I heard from someone on the radio that the
9th is liberal, but other than the occasional high visibility case, I have
absolutely no clue what sorts of decisions they've handed down."

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JoeSpareBedroom

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Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 32) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"witfal" wrote in message

> On 2008-03-03 06:41:59 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> said:
>
>>> But you've got to admit that fringe groups do tend to pick only on the
>>> U.S. to the exclusion of our enemies.
>>>
>>
>>
>> The likely reasons are virtually guaranteed to NOT be the one(s) you're
>> thinking of.
>
> What do YOU think they are?
>


It's pretty obvious. Environmental orgs have access to the legal system
here, as well as access to people who've been through the process of getting
a corporation or government entity to change something. Do you think anyone
would have much success getting the Russian navy to take the same
precautions around whales as our navy might. I doubt it. People can comment
on it, but they're better off focusing their resources here, where there's a
better chance of success.

By the way, here are two definitions for you:

Fringe group: A term used when you're not interested in the goal, don't
believe the goal is right, don't understand the goal, the group's members
don't look the way you think they should, or they use tactics which
illustrates that they have more chutzpah than you've ever had in your life.

Environmental organization: Used to describe the exact same organization as
above, when you are personally affected by an environmental violation and
their lawyers go to bat for you. Think Hooker Chemical & Love Canal. All of
a sudden, Greenpeace was viewed as the savior in that neighborhood.

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witfal

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Since: Jun 22, 2007
Posts: 294



(Msg. 33) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jeff

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Since: May 21, 2007
Posts: 965



(Msg. 34) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "witfal" wrote in message
>
>> On 2008-03-03 06:41:59 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>> said:
>>
>>>> But you've got to admit that fringe groups do tend to pick only on the
>>>> U.S. to the exclusion of our enemies.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The likely reasons are virtually guaranteed to NOT be the one(s) you're
>>> thinking of.
>> What do YOU think they are?
>>
>
>
> It's pretty obvious. Environmental orgs have access to the legal system
> here, as well as access to people who've been through the process of getting
> a corporation or government entity to change something. Do you think anyone
> would have much success getting the Russian navy to take the same
> precautions around whales as our navy might. I doubt it. People can comment
> on it, but they're better off focusing their resources here, where there's a
> better chance of success.
>
> By the way, here are two definitions for you:
>
> Fringe group: A term used when you're not interested in the goal, don't
> believe the goal is right, don't understand the goal, the group's members
> don't look the way you think they should, or they use tactics which
> illustrates that they have more chutzpah than you've ever had in your life.
>
> Environmental organization: Used to describe the exact same organization as
> above, when you are personally affected by an environmental violation and
> their lawyers go to bat for you. Think Hooker Chemical & Love Canal. All of
> a sudden, Greenpeace was viewed as the savior in that neighborhood.

One can also look at the things different environmental organizations
are doing in other countries. It is not just the US where
environmentalists are working.

Jeff
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JoeSpareBedroom

External


Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 35) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jeff" wrote in message

> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "witfal" wrote in message
>>
>>> On 2008-03-03 06:41:59 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>> said:
>>>
>>>>> But you've got to admit that fringe groups do tend to pick only on the
>>>>> U.S. to the exclusion of our enemies.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The likely reasons are virtually guaranteed to NOT be the one(s) you're
>>>> thinking of.
>>> What do YOU think they are?
>>>
>>
>>
>> It's pretty obvious. Environmental orgs have access to the legal system
>> here, as well as access to people who've been through the process of
>> getting a corporation or government entity to change something. Do you
>> think anyone would have much success getting the Russian navy to take the
>> same precautions around whales as our navy might. I doubt it. People can
>> comment on it, but they're better off focusing their resources here,
>> where there's a better chance of success.
>>
>> By the way, here are two definitions for you:
>>
>> Fringe group: A term used when you're not interested in the goal, don't
>> believe the goal is right, don't understand the goal, the group's members
>> don't look the way you think they should, or they use tactics which
>> illustrates that they have more chutzpah than you've ever had in your
>> life.
>>
>> Environmental organization: Used to describe the exact same organization
>> as above, when you are personally affected by an environmental violation
>> and their lawyers go to bat for you. Think Hooker Chemical & Love Canal.
>> All of a sudden, Greenpeace was viewed as the savior in that
>> neighborhood.
>
> One can also look at the things different environmental organizations are
> doing in other countries. It is not just the US where environmentalists
> are working.
>
> Jeff


That's true, but if I had to pick a country where there'd be a lowest
probability of success, Russia would be in the top 5 on that list.
 >> Stay informed about: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law 
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Jeff

External


Since: May 21, 2007
Posts: 965



(Msg. 36) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Jeff" wrote in message
>
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "witfal" wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On 2008-03-03 06:41:59 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>> said:
>>>>
>>>>>> But you've got to admit that fringe groups do tend to pick only on the
>>>>>> U.S. to the exclusion of our enemies.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The likely reasons are virtually guaranteed to NOT be the one(s) you're
>>>>> thinking of.
>>>> What do YOU think they are?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's pretty obvious. Environmental orgs have access to the legal system
>>> here, as well as access to people who've been through the process of
>>> getting a corporation or government entity to change something. Do you
>>> think anyone would have much success getting the Russian navy to take the
>>> same precautions around whales as our navy might. I doubt it. People can
>>> comment on it, but they're better off focusing their resources here,
>>> where there's a better chance of success.
>>>
>>> By the way, here are two definitions for you:
>>>
>>> Fringe group: A term used when you're not interested in the goal, don't
>>> believe the goal is right, don't understand the goal, the group's members
>>> don't look the way you think they should, or they use tactics which
>>> illustrates that they have more chutzpah than you've ever had in your
>>> life.
>>>
>>> Environmental organization: Used to describe the exact same organization
>>> as above, when you are personally affected by an environmental violation
>>> and their lawyers go to bat for you. Think Hooker Chemical & Love Canal.
>>> All of a sudden, Greenpeace was viewed as the savior in that
>>> neighborhood.
>> One can also look at the things different environmental organizations are
>> doing in other countries. It is not just the US where environmentalists
>> are working.
>
>> Jeff
>
>
> That's true, but if I had to pick a country where there'd be a lowest
> probability of success, Russia would be in the top 5 on that list.

I am not sure of that. There are over 1,000,000,000 people all fighting
for resources in India. Some of the rivers are open sewers. There is war
in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some African countries. When people are
fighting for their lives, the environment as an issue goes down the tubes.

Jeff
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JoeSpareBedroom

External


Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 37) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jeff" wrote in message

> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Jeff" wrote in message
>>
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "witfal" wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> On 2008-03-03 06:41:59 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>>> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> But you've got to admit that fringe groups do tend to pick only on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> U.S. to the exclusion of our enemies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The likely reasons are virtually guaranteed to NOT be the one(s)
>>>>>> you're
>>>>>> thinking of.
>>>>> What do YOU think they are?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's pretty obvious. Environmental orgs have access to the legal system
>>>> here, as well as access to people who've been through the process of
>>>> getting a corporation or government entity to change something. Do you
>>>> think anyone would have much success getting the Russian navy to take
>>>> the same precautions around whales as our navy might. I doubt it.
>>>> People can comment on it, but they're better off focusing their
>>>> resources here, where there's a better chance of success.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, here are two definitions for you:
>>>>
>>>> Fringe group: A term used when you're not interested in the goal, don't
>>>> believe the goal is right, don't understand the goal, the group's
>>>> members don't look the way you think they should, or they use tactics
>>>> which illustrates that they have more chutzpah than you've ever had in
>>>> your life.
>>>>
>>>> Environmental organization: Used to describe the exact same
>>>> organization as above, when you are personally affected by an
>>>> environmental violation and their lawyers go to bat for you. Think
>>>> Hooker Chemical & Love Canal. All of a sudden, Greenpeace was viewed as
>>>> the savior in that neighborhood.
>>> One can also look at the things different environmental organizations
>>> are doing in other countries. It is not just the US where
>>> environmentalists are working.
>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> That's true, but if I had to pick a country where there'd be a lowest
>> probability of success, Russia would be in the top 5 on that list.
>
> I am not sure of that. There are over 1,000,000,000 people all fighting
> for resources in India. Some of the rivers are open sewers. There is war
> in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some African countries. When people are
> fighting for their lives, the environment as an issue goes down the tubes.
>
> Jeff


I was referring more to governmental resistance and secrecy as the main
problems. But, you're correct about those other factors.
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Jeff

External


Since: May 21, 2007
Posts: 965



(Msg. 38) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike hunt wrote:
> Does the court expect us to believe it is better to let people kill American
> than for Americans to possibly kill a whale?
>
>
>
>
>
> "witfal" wrote in message
>> On 2008-03-02 17:42:07 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>> said:
>>
>>> "witfal" wrote in message
>>>> On 2008-03-02 16:54:05 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>> said:
>>>>
>>>>> "Jeff Strickland" wrote in
>> Not in and of itself. The jury's still out on that one. But the 9th has
>> very often stepped on its own appendage by overstepping what's judicially
>> permissable.
>>
>> Bottom line: I suspect this is just junk science being used by extremist
>> anti-military types. We'll see.

The court's opinion on the value of American lives vs. Whale lives is
not relevant. The relevant question is, "Do the President and Navy have
to follow US law?"

I suggest that you read the court's opinion, which you can find at the
website of the 9th circuit's website. In addition, you can find the
opinion of the district court. Google can help you find them. In
addition, I have provided a link to the circuit court's opinion
previously in this thread.

Jeff
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JoeSpareBedroom

External


Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 39) Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Jeff" wrote in message

> Mike hunt wrote:
>> Does the court expect us to believe it is better to let people kill
>> American than for Americans to possibly kill a whale?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "witfal" wrote in message
>>> On 2008-03-02 17:42:07 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> "witfal" wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> On 2008-03-02 16:54:05 -0800, "JoeSpareBedroom"
>>>>>
>>>>> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jeff Strickland" wrote in
>>> Not in and of itself. The jury's still out on that one. But the 9th
>>> has very often stepped on its own appendage by overstepping what's
>>> judicially permissable.
>>>
>>> Bottom line: I suspect this is just junk science being used by
>>> extremist anti-military types. We'll see.
>
> The court's opinion on the value of American lives vs. Whale lives is not
> relevant. The relevant question is, "Do the President and Navy have to
> follow US law?"
>
> I suggest that you read the court's opinion, which you can find at the
> website of the 9th circuit's website. In addition, you can find the
> opinion of the district court. Google can help you find them. In addition,
> I have provided a link to the circuit court's opinion previously in this
> thread.
>
> Jeff


Hunt has read nothing about the issue at all. He's too busy.
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JoeSpareBedroom

External


Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 40) Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Mark A" wrote in message

> "Jeff" wrote in message
>
>> The 9th Circuit Court of appeals ruled that the Navy can't break the law
>> even if the President says they can.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> The constitution give everyone the right to appeal to a higher court, even
> the president.
>

True, but this particular president doesn't seem capable of understanding of
how little is being asked of the Navy.

"Under the court decision, the Navy must maintain a 12 nautical mile
no-sonar buffer zone along the California coast, shut down sonar when marine
mammals are spotted within 2,200 yards (meters) and avoid whale habitats
among other measures."

The ruling relates to training exercises. I'm sure nobody expects the Navy
to obey the ruling if they feel an enemy is within that 12 mile limit,
although I'm sure someone in this newsgroup will argue this point.
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Mark A3

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Since: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 434



(Msg. 41) Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message

> True, but this particular president doesn't seem capable of understanding
> of how little is being asked of the Navy.
>
> "Under the court decision, the Navy must maintain a 12 nautical mile
> no-sonar buffer zone along the California coast, shut down sonar when
> marine mammals are spotted within 2,200 yards (meters) and avoid whale
> habitats among other measures."
>
> The ruling relates to training exercises. I'm sure nobody expects the Navy
> to obey the ruling if they feel an enemy is within that 12 mile limit,
> although I'm sure someone in this newsgroup will argue this point.

I doubt seriously that it was the president who decided to have the military
do this. It was most likely career military officers, some (or many) of whom
are Democrats.
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JoeSpareBedroom

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Since: May 15, 2006
Posts: 675



(Msg. 42) Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Presidents do not have the write to rewrite the law [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Mark A" wrote in message

> "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
>
>> True, but this particular president doesn't seem capable of understanding
>> of how little is being asked of the Navy.
>>
>> "Under the court decision, the Navy must maintain a 12 nautical mile
>> no-sonar buffer zone along the California coast, shut down sonar when
>> marine mammals are spotted within 2,200 yards (meters) and avoid whale
>> habitats among other measures."
>>
>> The ruling relates to training exercises. I'm sure nobody expects the
>> Navy to obey the ruling if they feel an enemy is within that 12 mile
>> limit, although I'm sure someone in this newsgroup will argue this point.
>
> I doubt seriously that it was the president who decided to have the
> military do this. It was most likely career military officers, some (or
> many) of whom are Democrats.
>


If you're not part of the solution.....

You know the rest of that sentence.
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